When East Meets West
When East Meets West
S4E20 Introspection and Growth in the New Year
Ever wondered why New Year’s resolutions often feel like they’re woven from the same fairy tale fabric as Cinderella’s midnight transformation? Join us on this whimsical exploration of fresh starts, where we poke fun at the cultural expectation of overnight success while offering insights from our therapeutic experiences.
This episode encourages listeners to consider a more fluid approach to New Year’s resolutions, emphasizing intentions over rigid goals. We explore how to structure personal change with compassion and small actionable steps, while discussing relapse within the context of holiday pressures and the importance of internal clarity in setting meaningful directions.
• Discussing the pressure of resolutions
• Identifying patterns of relapse during the holidays
• The effectiveness of intentions versus resolutions
• Understanding the importance of operationalizing goals
• The role of moderation in behavioral change
• Exploring Buddhist perspectives on making changes
• Suggesting strategies for internal reflection and clarity
• Providing actionable homework for listeners to set intentions
happy new year. We're back, it's 2025 happy 2025. Nikki, I always kind of laugh when it's a new year because, uh, I always I say this to patients a lot I'm like, look, it's a nice uh opportunity to talk about fresh starts, which we're going to talk about today, and resolutions and all that. But I'm also like, you know, it's not like cinderella, like the stroke of midnight everything changes, you know so for listeners that don't know cinderella no, I'm just kidding, but it does.
Speaker 1:It feels that way, right, like it's that magical thinking of like oh let me just start over, start fresh and like, yeah, I'm gonna find some glass shoe, or how do you?
Speaker 2:how do girls like a slipper?
Speaker 1:oh, yeah, in the story it's a glass slipper. But yes, it's a heel yeah yeah, I'm gonna find a glass slipper and everything will be magically different. Yeah I know yeah, so that's yeah, no, totally well, and I think that's what's interesting, because you know we want to talk today about, you know, resolutions, even though I personally am not a fan of that, uh phrase but I want to yeah, I, but that's, you know, that's what people say.
Speaker 1:So I think it's helpful as a um, as an in, to talk about like using things like the new year as an opportunity to reset like anniversaries, like you know, birthdays, new years are great times to sometimes say like hey, we're marking time, I'm going to use that. This is way to um, start a new routine, etc. While also holding it with lightness, like right, like I think resolution gets very sticky, gets very rigid um which you're jumping right into like smartness.
Speaker 2:Wait let me. How did you have a good break? You know too, just a little I did.
Speaker 1:You're like speaking of with lightness.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I mean, I was working you know it's like I was yeah, you know, you get where you had that great vacation before, and that's why I did, I did I did.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I was, I was teasing patients. They were like, oh, you have time off. I'm like.
Speaker 2:You know, the holidays are kind of like tax season for accountants, for therapists oh, I like that yeah, and they were like oh, we'll say more about that actually, because, remember, that's like big in the like er and like substance use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just like it's stressful time, so like you know there's a lot of people need a lot of support, so, um, just fine, that's. Every job has their times that are busier, but like to that point it's also like, okay, like I have that sense of like it's okay, that's done. So like it's january, it's let's, it's time to be kind of, you know, refocused and refreshed. So you know, I guess if we can come back to the idea of resolutions being sticky, here, wait.
Speaker 2:But let me say one thing before we do the sticky resolution. Tell me, the data does tell us that there's an uptick in hospitalizations and when you fall off the wagon, which what's the clinical word for that? Relapse.
Speaker 1:When you relapse.
Speaker 2:When you relapse for substance use, not making light of it.
Speaker 1:I just I'm still trying to get my brain, not being able to your word, finding difficulties, yeah.
Speaker 2:We still haven't done that episode. All right, I'm writing that down again. We keep forgetting that. We write down the word finding, yeah, and so there's also an uptick in relapse during the holidays, so that's why Nikki was saying that it's like tax season for therapists.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay so sticky resolutions. Go. Yes, you tell me. You tell me, why do you not vibe with the term resolution? I think it's sticky.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I wanted to hear what you're going to say with the word because you're smart, you're like my dictionary, I text you. Listeners will go to Google or dictionarycom.
Speaker 2:I go to my contact list and text Nikki. I'll be like Nikki, what does this mean? But that's why I was curious what you were going to say. But I'll just say, from a behavioral perspective, just like you were saying as we started this episode it you know. You know, anniversaries are things we give meaning to and that then creates this like expectation that that's the only time you can do this, versus I say like do it on a Monday or do it on a Wednesday, you know you don't have to wait to do any of this stuff.
Speaker 2:So that's why, for me, resolutions um there, I also like that you started with cinderella, like there's no cinderella to any.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's like you know what you're saying about, like the expectations, like resolutions can um, I think that people can put too much pressure on themselves with that, like I think oftentimes you know, humans have difficulty like dialectically balancing, uh, practicing discipline, which is like having a commitment to change while also making room to accept that it's going to be bumpy and that they're not going to do it perfectly.
Speaker 1:So I think you know the vibe of resolutions is often like it. You know it has to be this way. I'm going to go to the gym like five days a week, or I'm going to fix my relationship with my mother, or I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's with my mother. Again, I'm not saying you can't want to work on increasing your movement and your body and exercise or improving your relationship with your mom, but I think the framework of resolutions has such a hard edge, and so that as soon as you hit a roadblock which you will, because that's what being alive is about right, yeah, it sets people up to feel like immensely disappointed, where then they give up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and I think that, like the flip and we've talked about this on the podcast before but is to set you know an intention, yeah Right, or something like you even said. I even like a framework which might be like I'm going to increase you know the amount of exercise I'm going to do, right, and you might say, ok, I'm going to, but I'm going to start small.
Speaker 2:I'm going to start by committing. Yeah, you have to start small, and one of the things that the research has told us is that one of the reasons that people fail so much and I'll give you some stats on that is because goals are often not clear. I don't even know what that means.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is that?
Speaker 2:What does that mean?
Speaker 1:Like a good behaviorist. Yes, for listeners. So in behaviorists we make sure that we. The phrase is operationalize a behavior, and to operationalize a behavior means to define what it is. How would we know? How do we know what a behavior is, what it looks like, and how do we know change has occurred and how?
Speaker 2:we measure it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So is fixing your relationship with your mom meaning that you don't take the bait when she's criticizing you? Does it mean that you are speaking to her on the phone more regularly? Is it that you don't get as irritated with her, like, maybe it's all those things, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, and so some of the research showed us that only um, only nine percent of americans who make resolutions actually complete them. And then one of the studies said that 87% of people who made them said a month later that they still had kept them, which I'm going to say that they're lying, because how does it go from 87% to 9%, right?
Speaker 1:Right, totally, there's no way.
Speaker 2:So those people that they polled in that likely weren't. And I'm not saying that. That's just what the issue of social science is, that it's hard to capture these things and, like Nikki said, that's why we have to operationalize it. And so another example of opera. Let's think of another resolution. So, because I don't, you and I have good relationship with our moms. That doesn't even sound like people would be like Dr Nikki and Dr.
Speaker 1:Terrible moms, right, no, it was actually really really awesome moms. But, um, totally, yeah, no, I think like another, you know, I think the ones that like are common have to do around like with health or right, like losing weight, yes, or like organization, sometimes like I'm gonna get like or I'm gonna.
Speaker 2:I just got so nervous when you said that oh, did you why?
Speaker 1:because you're feeling disorganized yeah, remember before we started recording, so listen before we I almost I just froze.
Speaker 2:I just had like a deer in headlights when you said that. Because so let's. So nikki and I, before we recorded, we're talking about organization and nikki share with me how she organizes some of her requirements for our licensure and all this stuff, and I'm on the outside team so organized but there's a piece of me that's really disorganized.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so well, so okay, but so like. That would be an example, like if you were to say, like, like, I have to be organized, that's not going to work well, versus saying you know what, I'm going to start with just creating some folders for my I know, but so it's like starting there for my continuing education certificates. It's like I, you know. I think like what you're saying about what the research supports and and I can also just say this like from my own experience personally, and then, just when I work clinically with people, it's like the small stuff adds up, you know. I think also like when people like when you have, like if someone has a big goal, like, let's say they, they really have not been exercising or taking care of themselves, well, and it's like, well, I'm going to start getting in shape, it's like okay, but like if you can just start to committing to like walking three times a week, right, Anything like that that's much more.
Speaker 1:It's it's much more doable and it's more it's more reinforcing. You're going to feel more hopeful and motivated because you're completing something and also like you're not like overtaxing your body, you're not doing something that's so hard you can't do, and then you're like, oh, it's too hard, I'm going to give up on it.
Speaker 2:I want to give you an example and you help me break this down, because I find people get confused when I try to explain them. So one of the things I did towards the end of last year maybe like September, october, ish, not waiting for the new year I did um no alcohol, no sugar and no cheese. And I did it maybe for like a week or two, just to kind of like jump start my body.
Speaker 2:But then I was like moderate after yes people get confused when I say that and it's and I don't even know the best way to describe it because I'm like I can't say no alcohol, sugar or cheese, because then everyone's always like what do you do?
Speaker 2:I live right because it feels so absolute yes but it's hard when I say well, moderate, like so maybe if I have one I won't have the other two. Or you know, during the week I try and think of days where I kind of commit to a little bit more than others, but not in a rigid way. And then I think then, when I even hear I look at their face like sort of I was looking at yours right now. People look confused.
Speaker 1:Well, because I think that way okay, cause I think that you're describing is you, you're you, you do a week, you're said you did a week of of being very disciplined and more extreme, but very quickly start to soften and I so that can. I've seen things like that work for people, though I will say in general and I'm actually thinking of somebody I've worked with recently around this it's that in general, most people unfortunately aren't very good at doing that that what they'll do is they'll say I need to go really extreme. And then they go and they're like that's going to fix the thing that's not working, and then they give up and they go back to the ways of doing things that don't work and they don't learn to modulate. And so I think, for most people, a more effective approach is not to say let me pull back really tight and then start to work my way towards moderation. It's more about building small to large, like you know, to say like I'm going to start by, like, decreasing my alcohol intake.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Right, and I'll get to those other two later. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So if I say something like I'm limiting my alcohol, sugar and cheese intake?
Speaker 1:I might say for you if it was like, if I was, I might say like cheese intake. I might say for you, if it was like, if I was, I might say like, that's fine to want to do that holistic, but let's start with one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and well, in my example, I actually feel really good about it, like I'm not struggling with modulating it actually I, I hear that, but what I'm saying is I think most people don't do well with, with most people do so and and again to for listeners here like.
Speaker 1:This is a great example of like, and there are some people like pete were, like that can work really well to say I'm going to be really committed for x amount of time but I.
Speaker 1:That's not what I would generally recommend yeah, no, yeah, go ahead what I was gonna say, like I think this is a good opportunity to talk about, like what, like a buddhist perspective would say is that, oh, yeah's not, um, it's, it's not starting from a middle path, right? Like we're trying to like holistically move in a direction that's more effective, and when we go to the polls, we actually set ourselves up most times to push ourselves to the other side that we don't want to be on. So I'm curious like what is like? What does Buddhism say about, you know, changes, like resolutions, things like that?
Speaker 2:Well before we, so I, for the record. It took months to get to comfort to the modulation. It wasn't like I, I didn't just arrive at that right away just for the record.
Speaker 2:And I may have done it strictly for like a month. We have middle path. I mean, there's a middle path perspective which is more behaviorally based, so that really comes from more of the evidence-based, acceptance-based strategies. Buddhism talks about sort of middle path, but not as directly, because one of the things in terms of these three things I'm saying is there is a little bit of an absolute around mind-altering stuff and so sugar and alcohol would be mind-altering and so that's why actually for a year, when I first started studying buddhism, I didn't drink or do anything at all I even stopped drinking uh coffee yeah and I would drink decaf because that was, that was my journey, like it wasn't for everybody.
Speaker 2:And my teacher said I've shared this on here my teacher was like you're exactly where you need to be you know you don't want me to change anything, but then I interpret that as like okay, I need to get rid of all this yeah so they don't really go to those other end of the polls too much except in those examples.
Speaker 2:So I guess that's another dialectic where in one hand they're going to have the idea of like no mind-altering substances because you want to just get towards enlightenment but, in today's world, in 2025 hey, hey, 2025, we understand more about human condition and that it might not be. There is no enlightenment. Original teachings of Buddha didn't talk about no enlightenment. It's about reaching it. And now we're like, no, there's no such thing as it.
Speaker 1:Okay, but here's what I'm wondering, though what would Buddhism say about making changes like, if you want to change, you want to move towards change, if you're, you're, you're, you know life is a way that you don't want it to be yet and you want to move towards? Something else that yeah, what would they? What would they say?
Speaker 2:just do it, just do it, yeah, hey nike, you want to sponsor us.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, I highly doubt it, but no, I mean yeah it is.
Speaker 2:It would be a value-based decision. So if it's like a value that you're missing if there's no harm you know, I'll give an example like premarital sex.
Speaker 2:There's no like teaching around premarital sex. There's no like teaching around premarital sex. In fact, this, any teaching around sex is as long as both people come to. If it's two people, but as long as the people come to it with no pain, no suffering and kind of for this act of enjoyment, then there's really no judgment about the practice. It just would be to engage in something that two people are choosing to engage in.
Speaker 1:So yeah, if somebody wants to live differently, yeah, like how, but they would, but how would that?
Speaker 2:because there's a lot of guidelines about how to approach being a person like eightfold path.
Speaker 1:So how would you get from being like how would, how would a? How would your teacher guide somebody who says, um, I have a, I don't have a great relationship with my mom and I want 2025 to be about a better relationship with my mom. I want to make changes in the relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would be well. You know what they would probably say Just sit on it.
Speaker 1:Like don't do anything to.
Speaker 2:Well, meditate, sit on it, see what comes up. I mean, a lot of the practice of Zen is like seeing who you are without anything. And so when you sit and meditate in a disciplined way, you're sitting in silence, your brain is loud and what comes up? Images of your mom and what a Buddhist teacher would say, and you would do this during Daisan, and Daisan is one-on-one teachings with your teacher, is one-on-one teachings with your teacher, and so if I'm doing like a two-hour sitting in the morning, usually it's broken up where he'll meet with his students for like a period of 20 minutes. Maybe you meet with him for five minutes.
Speaker 2:And maybe if I'm thinking about that for 2025, I might bring that into Dyson and say hey, roshi, I want to improve my relationship with my mom, and likely he would say you know, if I put myself in his shoes, he'd say something like what will that do for you? Have you sat on it? What's happened when you sat on it?
Speaker 1:How is it he?
Speaker 2:often just says how is it?
Speaker 1:Interesting. Yeah, no, that's really interesting, I you know. So what? What was you know coming up for me as you were sharing? That is because, again, I'm trying to think about, like you know, coming up for me as you, as you were sharing. That is cause, again, I'm trying to think about, like you know, folks who are listening that maybe don't have a lot of practice with this kind of stuff, it's like, right, this speaks to me and what we, we would talk a lot about in therapy, which is like starting internally with like, does what feels aligned or misaligned, what feels connected or not connected? So, if you're wanting to make overt change in the world, we first have to be clear internally about you know what we're connected to. Why are we taking a step forward, a certain direction? If you want to start walking west, before you start walking west, you want to be present and clear to oh, I feel a pull in that direction.
Speaker 1:Yes to, oh, I feel a pull in that direction. So you know like this might sound pretty like vague or opaque to listeners, but what I would say is, you know and maybe this would be a nice way to sort of wrap up this episode here which is, you know, in the spirit of kind of like moving away from like edgy, rigid resolutions right, that gets sticky. It's more, starting with like where do I feel pulled to move? Like what, internally, is feeling aligned for me, and then, from that place, then asking yourself, okay, well, like what's the first small step I can take? And taking that step and seeing how it goes, I don't know how does that feel for?
Speaker 2:you, Pete. It feels great. I love it. I think you want to see what you're pulled towards when you're sitting, so if you're meditating- what are you? Pulled towards and so you know, because that's what silence will bring people. You'll bring some clarity around things and so you're allowed to recognize sort of what is loud, what needs attention and where are you pulled.
Speaker 1:Okay, what needs attention and where are you pulled? Okay, all right. So you know, my homework is like a good CBT therapist for listeners is to you know, maybe start this 2025 by taking a pause, going internal listening and trying to clarify which direction do you want to start to walk in this year? Yeah,
