When East Meets West
When East Meets West
S4E16 Breaking Free from Tradition: A Path to Joy
What happens when a tradition starts to feel more like a burden than a joy? Join us as we navigate the nuanced world of holiday customs, from the heartwarming to the hilariously rigid. We kick off with personal stories, revealing how attending Alvin Ailey performances in New York has evolved from a cherished ritual to a topic of reflection. Traditions can be a comforting presence, weaving joy and connection into our lives, but they can also become stifling obligations. We share light-hearted anecdotes and thought-provoking insights on striking that perfect balance—whether it's sticking with the old, beloved customs or daring to carve out new ones that resonate with your current self.
In a world that's rapidly shifting from community-based to individualistic, thanks to technology and globalization, we ponder the future of traditions. Are we witnessing their evolution or decline? Our playful yet earnest discussion explores how cultural expectations shape our personal practices, even in unexpected arenas like sports. Superstitions, anyone? We encourage listeners to take a moment of introspection, especially as the holiday season looms, and consider tweaking or even letting go of some traditions that might not serve them anymore. Together, let's find the joy in our customs and the courage to embrace change where it's needed.
so I used to always every december go to alvin ellie in new york by myself, often um every december, just to sit there and kind of enjoy and embrace, and I created a tradition oh, that's so lovely you're, so I'm assuming you want to talk about tradition today.
Speaker 2:That was your little backdoor introduction into tradition.
Speaker 1:I like that I hope people are enjoying them, but uh yes, I, I enjoy them I want to talk like, but also talk about some of our own kind of personal traditions maybe, or just traditions in general um, but to see as they come up, because we thought it'd be nice to have a an episode on traditions, because we are upon the holiday seasons we often talk about different things in upon the holiday seasons and we often talk about different things in during the holiday seasons, and traditions are wonderful.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Well, you know what, and it's interesting, I I actually I don't know if you know this about me actually this might be a you might learn this about me yeah, I know, um, and so I think it's actually cool to talk about this today, because I am somebody that doesn't like hold a lot of weight with tradition okay, like tradition yeah, you do, do you know, yeah, yeah I was like, and not in a way not that I don't, um, understand it, or it's not even that I don't like traditions, it's like I actually just don't feel a particular connection to them, um, and I, there's been times in my life where I sort of adhere to certain traditions more than others.
Speaker 2:But I think it's important to talk about because, when we talk, traditions are value, you know, and one thing that you know we talk a lot about on this podcast, right, is like human brains can get rigid about anything, even values.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I think traditions are one where people can get really sticky, like I have to have a tradition or I have to adhere to them. And I think what I guess, especially between Pete and I, what I want listeners to understand is like, if you value tradition, that's awesome. Like, if you, if that feels really nourishing and connecting to you absolutely like have tradition and follow it. But if you're like me and you're like like you know, sure I can participate in traditions or not, like that's also okay.
Speaker 1:It's a. I love how you frame that around the rigidity, because really the minute you said that I just saw the traditions are rigid. It's like, oh, these people have to come over and this has to be the way the table is set and this has to be on this day, yes, yes. So from the Eastern perspective, I always say, like I use the good China on a Monday.
Speaker 2:You don't have to wait for a day, sure, sure.
Speaker 1:And also like celebrate things all the time Like you don't have to wait. You don't have to wait for a day, sure. And also like celebrate things all the time like you don't have to wait for a discreet day right, exactly, and it's like.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, it's like, if you love using the good china on thanksgiving and like, if, maybe, maybe that's really nourishing for you, maybe that's really special, that's so awesome, I'm like go for it. However, if you're somebody that's like, I hate doing this.
Speaker 1:I hate this tradition. This is like then don't do it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Then don't, and so I think what's like in talking about this because, yes, I would say traditions aren't inherently rigid, they're inherently structured, is maybe a better way of saying it though they can become rigid when the expectation is yes, you have to do it this way, and if you don't do it this way, you don't care, and it's like what I want people to know is, like any other value, tradition is only meaningful if you feel a connection to it, and if you don't, that doesn't make you wrong or bad, it's just not for you. That's okay.
Speaker 1:I'm laughing and I don't think my dad listens to it. Just not for you, that's okay, I'm laughing, and I don't think my dad listens to podcasts, so that's good.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Listen to this episode, because I'm gonna. He just sent us out a video to me, my brothers, or it's November. We'll let people peek behind the curtain. It's November 11. Y'all and we are recording and who knows when 2024, and who knows when it's going to release. But my dad already set up his like christmas village in his house and he sends a video of it to my brothers who do not welcome or value in this, as you're saying yes, yes, uh-huh and I've I've grown closer to you in this, where I'm less kind of um structured on tradition today than I used to be, yes, yes, and so it's just kind of funny to see it.
Speaker 1:But I know for him and I'm more patient than my brothers, where I recognize that it's about his history and his tradition, because growing up we would go to my uncle and grandparents' house in New York and it was like tchotchke galore of Christmas stuff.
Speaker 1:I mean as a kid it was cool because there was yeah, all these things moving sure, sure you know really, uh, uh, some might call it gaudy um, hey, hey new york. Do they even use that? I mean, is there gaudy on the West Coast? Oh, yeah, the word gaudy Sure, I know the word, but like, not in this New York sense, like, are there like houses that are gaudy on the West Coast?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean especially like there's like, you know, like around the holidays people do that stuff, yeah for sure yeah. Do you know where that word comes from, gaudi?
Speaker 1:I don't Do. You know that no.
Speaker 2:Please. I learned it from Gaudi. You know the Spanish. Oh, yeah, yeah, From Barcelona, the Spanish architect, yeah, architect, yeah, so anyway, but yeah, so we have bodies.
Speaker 1:Wait, that's where it comes from.
Speaker 2:That's what I was taught.
Speaker 1:I, she's gonna fact check us. Yeah, yeah, I'm I. That's what I was taught. That's what I was told. Dr room is a good cognitive therapist, but she's not a good historian architect. That's what I was taught.
Speaker 2:That's what I was told and I was like, yeah, that makes sense. Um so, uh, yeah, but no, we've, we've got gaudy stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, yeah I mean, but it's obviously it's different because it's usually cold, all that stuff. Okay, so, um, traditions, you know, um, how do you see? Are there other ways that you see them coming up, say with the patients that you work with, or you know where else? You know, because I, as you and I talked about this episode, there's traditions are not just holidays.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously the context of holidays makes sense, but like talk more about it, yeah, well, it's interesting from I say and maybe this is not going to surprise listeners like in my work, I think I end up doing more where I'm trying to help people get some flexibility around tradition. And again, I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to advocate that. You shouldn't have it. That's not my aim. It's more that I more encounter people like, have expectations of like, like the shoulds of what they should be doing. So one thing that comes up a lot is actually around tradition related to like milestones in life, so like engagements, weddings, having a baby, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:And there's don't ask my mother about those.
Speaker 2:She will let you know. Yeah, so there's, there's a lot, and I would say you know, especially, you know, I see people, for example, that get really, really. I'm going to say this phrase bent out of shape. If, like, somebody can't come to their baby shower and I'll say, well, I mean, that's tradition is important to you, that's okay, you're allowed to that's what.
Speaker 2:I'm saying, and so it's like there's an expectation that the tradition like if you value a tradition that other people should value, or they should show up in the same way and I'll say, well, maybe they're not coming to your baby Like there's been examples where somebody doesn't want to come because that person is having trouble getting pregnant, and I'm like, well, like that's really painful for them. You know like that's not, that's really painful for them. You know like that's not so, like so I don't know if you so that's like what I see a lot where it's like people are like adhering so tightly to their own value that they're imposing that on other people. And I try to help people say like to see, like you're allowed to value whatever it is that you value, and you're allowed to feel disappointed if other people's value don't align with yours. But what's not okay is to say they're wrong or yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's so egocentric, you know, it's like yeah, so those are the milestones.
Speaker 1:Uh, I you know that's important um, I also see tradition in sports because people feel like sure, that's, you know like superstition or tradition like I feel like they have to kind of do I get I get like that remember if you've tuned into our other episodes about the the the east west mets uh dodgers episode yes nikki has to sit in a certain chair. How ridiculous y'all. I get met.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I guess that that is a place I get very, I get, I value tradition is is for baseball for Dodgers. Yeah, I do, yes, I, I do have traditions around that for sure.
Speaker 1:See, listeners, we in live, we're figuring each other out and yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1:I'm and uh, yeah, yeah, um so, and I'm gonna I was gonna bring in a little bit of east, but then yeah, please, yeah, because there are traditions in the east, uh, and so, uh, you know, there's no in buddhism, there's no deities per se, you know, and that's what really separates it from other religions. It's not like there's a god. Um, there are certain schools within buddhism where there are gods, um, you know, mostly that's hinduism, uh, and kind of influence in those areas, but there are traditions. So, for example, um, as I'm becoming a teacher, um, you know, in my, in my roshi, my teacher's lineage, like we're gonna have this whole ceremony and the ceremony is very tradition-based. It's, um, we drip wax on the paper and the you know and the context, and that's like on a paper that Roshi, my teacher, is going to give me some you know a name, or give me you know some kind of you know, Zen sort of story to carry on.
Speaker 1:Obviously, the Dharma I have and I possess is from all of the you know 15 years of sitting with him and every time he speaks, you're kind of learning. But the tradition of the wax Nikki, which I think the listeners will appreciate, is Buddhism for a long time were persecuted. So when they were like all religions, when they were having these ceremonies or sharing dharma with others, they had to do it in secret meetings, often at night, where they needed candles to light and to read, and so the the light to read would drip the wax on the paper it's very lovely, yeah right so.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to bring in a little bit of like a positive tradition too that kind of reminds us of some of the sort of things of where we came from sure, well, and I mean it's kind of an obvious uh why?
Speaker 2:reason why my brain went here, but I'm thinking of, like you know, very simply, the hanukkah right, the reason why we light, we light, um, eight candles is that it represented that the oil lasted for eight days, and you know, after the, you know, and eight nights and so, um, so yeah, like traditions tend to come from places and I think that maybe it's also important to say, like everybody can create their own traditions, like they don't have to be just things that are prescribed to us, like if and again, if you feel, you know, like a connection to you know, cultural, religious traditions, by all means.
Speaker 2:But like you can also, like have a personal tradition, like maybe you have a tradition, like you know, every Saturday you wake up and have a coffee by yourself outside to, you know, take space from your partner or your family or whatever. Like traditions can be small or large and we can create them for ourselves, we can create them with our, in our families and our communities. Like you know, there's all kinds of ways to make meaning and I think, like hopefully that's what listeners are hearing and what Pete and I are talking about, right, like we. These are practices that are about feeling connection. So if you don't feel a connection, you don't have to do them. That's okay, right? You don't have to expect, and if you do, please engage in those practices or come up with your own, you know.
Speaker 1:When do you see that it crosses over? You know like I feel like life is full of lines. Well, yeah full of lines of just like middle path to where it's getting to be unhealthy versus, like you know, lazier, less healthy. So when do you think some of those like little I love, like these little traditions I love? When do you think some of that might cross over to like obsessive or unhealthy type of tradition?
Speaker 2:more about following a rule and you get away from what you feel. That's always what I say to people. I'm like look, we know we're acting in alignment with our values when, experientially, we feel some kind of connection right, so even if it's a very disciplined behavior you're doing, if it feels nourishing to you, okay, you're in alignment, right.
Speaker 2:But if it's like something outside of yourself, you feel like you're doing something to appease somebody or to follow a rule, it doesn't. It's not intrinsic. That's where there's data Like I don't know, like, is this a tradition you want to follow? I think it's worth asking yourself that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so now we know, you have some traditions, I have some traditions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have zero traditions. I have some traditions and a lot of people in my life. But yeah, yeah, but I'm not. I'm not, it's not like a, it's not a value I engage with frequently.
Speaker 1:I would say yeah, I think, similar to you, that I've found that I've got less and less tradition as I'm getting older, which is sort of interesting, because I do. I'm going to say that I believe that part of that might be because of technology, because I do think technology has probably impacted tradition in a. Might be because of technology because I do think technology has probably impacted tradition in a certain way, you know because we live further apart, you know.
Speaker 1:So there's some of the globalization, some technology, where we're not as connected, and I think traditions was traditions, you know, fundamentally are probably about connection. I did pull up the definition, of course, but so what, miriam West? An inherited or customary pattern of thought, action or behavior, such as a religious practice or a social custom? I feel like there's probably. There's always some kind of community-based probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like your frame of the individual traditions. I love that and I think that's important and historically I think traditions were probably more community-based. Yeah, I think that's important and historically I think traditions were probably more community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's right yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think we've lost some community because of technology and globalization. Not about like, it's just what it is.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yep, and so I think with that we're probably going to see. I always think of like. There's this curve of like as education goes up, religion goes down, and so to me it almost feels like as age goes up, tradition goes down. I'm wondering if that's going to be something we'll see in this era.
Speaker 2:Interesting, interesting. Yeah Well, so you know, maybe it's just worth you know for all of us thinking about, like you know, are there traditions that we've moved away from that perhaps are important to us, right, or are there ones that we want to create, or maybe is it important to move away from some traditions that no longer serve us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so just take inventory of that. So, as the holiday season is upon us, whether contextually that means anything to you about your traditions, take inventory of your traditions in this moment.
