When East Meets West
When East Meets West
S4E15 Embracing Discomfort: Coping with Post-Election Reflections
What if the way we handle election results could foster personal growth and empathy? After experiencing the emotional rollercoaster of the recent US presidential election, we explore strategies for coping with outcomes, whether you're celebrating or feeling disheartened. Drawing from Eastern philosophies and cognitive behavioral therapy, we discuss the importance of holding outcomes lightly and the pitfalls of rigid expectations. Our conversation highlights how psychology can inform leadership and decision-making, and we emphasize the value of curiosity and caution in embracing diverse perspectives.
Join us as we navigate the warmth of unseasonably sunny days in New York, using them as a metaphor for embracing discomfort and nuance as pathways to personal growth. In a world that often craves simplicity, we make the case for advocating discomfort—suggesting that true understanding arises when we allow ourselves to be open to alternative perspectives. This thoughtful dialogue encourages listeners to challenge societal norms and foster a more nuanced worldview, providing insights for navigating the complexities of life with empathy and an open mind.
All right, Pete. Well, we thought it would be important to talk about post-election coping. Hello.
Speaker 2:I love coping skills.
Speaker 1:You do, you love them.
Speaker 2:I do love coping skills.
Speaker 1:You love them. Yes, coping skills are very helpful. We need them for all kinds of situations and you know I think I mean I'm sure there's people who are going to be listening to this post-election coping is going to be because the results of the most recent US presidential election are not what they wanted, though I actually would also extend this, like what we're talking about, to people. If this is what you want it to happen, that there is actually some coping, I think that can be done in that regard too, which maybe will surprise some people when I say that.
Speaker 2:But I hope we surprise people, because the reality of it is this is that life is uncertain, and so, whether you're celebrating or sad I was actually interviewed on a television news show about this and whether you're happy or sad, there's still uncertainty. You don't know. You know how this is all going to pan out, because life is full of that, and that's where I'm going to bring in some of the Eastern stuff, because that's that's our gift from the. East.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, so maybe we could actually start with if you, if you are celebrating this outcome, maybe we could start with the post election coping if you're celebrating this outcome, because I think what is slippery is that there can be an assumption that you know obviously we should just say it. If you voted for Donald Trump and you're, you know, happy that he's, you know, going to be back in the White House, you know you may be operating from assumptions that life is going to turn out exactly the way that you want it to.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, right yeah, right yeah, and so, and, but, but there's nothing that's certain, like that's one of the things you know, that's that's the thing in the East. That's like nothing certain. So like whatever your brain has pictured. And again, even joy, like part of what we're trying to do in Zen is you're trying to let go of attachment to any image of what something might be. I guess in cognitive behavioral therapy it's sort of like mind reading or emotional reasoning, right, like you sort of predict what something's going to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's well, just assumptions, right, like. So. Not so much mind reading, I mean, not so much what other people are thinking. It's more like you're saying this is what's going to happen, and you know, we can get really caught up, especially when we like something. We can get really caught up in saying, good, everything's going to turn out just the way that I want. And maybe I mean maybe though the reality is like nothing unfolds neatly right, and sometimes things end up really going a different direction than what we hoped. Right, yeah, helped the way that you were promised.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say insert Nikki's comment against the brain about how the brain likes things to unfold neatly, but in reality nothing unfolds neatly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I don't know anything that you would add to people that like some post election coping for folks that got the outcome that they wanted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think holding things lightly, I love when you, when you frame it in that way and of they wanted. Yeah, I think holding things lightly, I love when you frame it in that way and, of course, in the assumptions that we make. I think in my head I had the case conceptualization chart, so thinking about that as a cognitive behavioral therapist, so the assumptions that we make and just trying to let them go, and then I like that you also said about curiosity, because I think that's part of the thing that we make and just trying to let them go and I, and then I like that you also said about curiosity, because I think that's part of the thing that's missing right now. But but also be careful, like you know. Be careful about assumptions that we're making around the world, around everything you know that you know, I think I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is where I feel like people like you and I could really, in a really humble way, like really impact some leaders, you know, to understand the level, like how psychology affects all of this. You know.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. Can you say more about that, because I think, like when you're saying be careful, like I think that's interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because it's, you know. First of all, I mean, um, we're, it's so polarized, like black and white, you know, whether it's, you know it's, it's like literally Donald or Kamala. Um, so that polarization, the assumption might be that somebody voted for somebody or didn't, or someone's happy or is not, and so you know you never want to make assumptions about anything, like you don't want to make assumptions that, um, I'll never forget this.
Speaker 2:Actually, I had a colleague once when I was working at the bar, um, who, who got pregnant, and um, I remember like my reaction was like, oh no, like, sorry, are you okay? Like because she wasn't in the.
Speaker 2:You know the all the assumptions, like you're supposed to be married and you're supposed to be this and um it was all those things and and I really I remember where she was. No, I'm actually kind of happy and it was a nice moment for me, cause I was like, wow, like I totally just put all of my stuff on her.
Speaker 1:I was young and I wasn't even in grad school yet, Just for the just for context.
Speaker 2:I just started grad school, to be clear, but you know so like.
Speaker 1:those are the assumptions that I think we make that really can damage people and so or hurt people, coping for folks that got the outcome that they wanted. It's saying, like be careful, like not to you know. I think maybe, like you know I say this to people all the time it's like you don't want to like spike the football. So for you know if you're, if you're not an American listener, right?
Speaker 1:That's a common sort of phrase of, like I'm not an American football fan myself, but you know, it's like spiking the football, like yeah, like I won and it's well, okay, this is, these are, this is the outcome. And if this is the outcome that you wanted, okay, though also recognizing that this is not an outcome that you know, basically, half half of the people are unhappy with, aren't happy with, so yeah.
Speaker 1:so it's like can you extend understanding to to them? Can you under extend compassion, right? And that's hard to do actually. It's actually well, it's hard to do in all kinds of contexts, but when we get the thing that we want, it's really easy to sort of get stuck in a place where we feel, right, we feel vindicated, we, you know, it's kind of like us versus them stuff. And you know, I think I would encourage folks that got the outcome that they wanted here to try to let go of assumptions about people that voted differently. And we can. You know, maybe that's a good segue to now to talk about um, for folks that this is not the outcome that they wanted. Um, you know, can we also practice that from that angle? Right, that people that that? Um, you know, if you did not want Donald Trump to be president and you did not vote for him, how do you let go of assumptions about people that did vote for him?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'll go the opposite of the spiking of the ball, which of course I loved, and you need to watch a little more football, because now they've gotten like really fancy. Some of the they have like choreographed. They have choreographed.
Speaker 1:I just can't get into it. I just can't get into it. I just can't get into American football. It's not my jam.
Speaker 2:But there's all choreography around the celebrations. But to your point, I always say to athletes I work with you, take yourself out of the optimal zone. So you don't want to do that, you want to celebrate enough. But we've also seen guys get injured during the celebration so imagine that happening. Take that to the other side. You also don't want to be a sore loser, you know, and good sportsmanship.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I think we've seen that, you know, and so good. Sportsmanship means there's always a winner and a loser, and if you've been an athlete, you understand that losing never feels good. It never feels. None of us go into anything as a high performer expecting to lose.
Speaker 1:And so learning how to lose is actually what will make you a better performer. Yeah, Well, so, and what I'm thinking about and things that have certainly come up, you know, in a lot of my sessions, is, like I can imagine some folks listening that you know that are very saddened and disappointed, disappointed and scared about the outcome of this election saying, well, it's not just about it being a sore loser, this is about, you know, freedoms and our safety, things like that. So I think it's also important to say, like you know, Pete and I aren't trying to dismiss people's fears. So post-election coping if this is not the outcome that you wanted, it doesn't mean negating what is distressing to you. In fact, you want to feel that, you want to honor it, you want to allow it. But I think what Pete's, you know, kind of speaking to is also saying and this is the, this is the outcome.
Speaker 2:This is the outcome.
Speaker 1:This is what happens. So, yes, it's scary and yes, it's upsetting, and also this is what it is, and going back to what Pete and I were talking about before we actually we don't know how it's going to unfold- I just read your like.
Speaker 2:You just read my mind.
Speaker 1:You just read my mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we had that moment, because that's exactly what I was saying. It's like none of us knows how this is going to unfold because nobody knows the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I I've had to be really, really concrete with a lot of patients that have said things like like X, y and Z, this is what will happen. And I'll say I am being so literal when I say we don't know what's happening in the next moment. Right, right, you can have a lot of hypotheses and the hypothesis you know, hypotheses are based in data. I'm not saying you know, we, we make educated guesses about things. We want to have our eyes wide open and we can't just say this is what will happen.
Speaker 2:We don't know, we don't know. I just I was given a workshop to a group and I said uh, I say this a lot, so like in a provocative way, because I always like people to think this way where? Yeah, you know people want to like shut their thoughts off or slow things down it's like it's like your thoughts might end when you die, but we don't even know that. Yeah, you know totally.
Speaker 1:that's totally. That's totally right. That's totally right. So it's totally right. So it's like we don't know and I think that we're look again when we're really distressed. Unfortunately, our thoughts go into overdrive and our thoughts are telling us truth is about what's going to happen, and you know whether we're really scared or really happy or really sad or really bored or I don't know, or nothing, totally neutral. Yeah, our thoughts are not reality. Our thoughts don't tell us what's going to happen and like, sometimes things, sometimes things turn out the way that we think they will. Sometimes they're way better, sometimes they're way worse. We just don't know. But, like, coming from a place of like this is what will happen. It doesn't actually help us navigate the reality that we're in. So it's like I always say to people look, if something scary does happen, um, so being panicked in this moment is actually not going to help you, speaking of coping, it's actually not going to help you cope if the awful thing comes to pass, right.
Speaker 1:What's going to help you is to say, okay, I've got my eyes wide open, I'm going to be really aware of potential dangers, for example, and I'm going to keep putting one foot in front of the other and see how it unfolds and deal with reality as it happens, right.
Speaker 2:So what are your like? You know top coping or you know I can name. What would you name as sort of top coping for people post-election that they can practice?
Speaker 1:You know, I mean sort of in terms of, like people are really having a lot of distressing emotions. It's like I'll say, like take care of the emotions, right. Do the things that make you feel soothed, do the things that are grounding. I mean, you know basic things, you know it's like go, like, be with your loved ones, go on a walk. Right, like you know, read, read things that are nourishing, like take a break from the news, that kind of stuff, right.
Speaker 1:But then I'll also say refocus on what you have agency over. Right, come back to like what are, what are your values? What can you do? Right, don't you know like going to like sit in a dark room pulling covers over your head, isn't you know? It's not, it's, it's not actually gonna make you feel that much better. So I'll say like re-engage and in what feels meaningful and purposeful to you much better. So I'll say like re-engage and in what feels meaningful and purposeful to you. And then, lastly, I say and then keep coming back to like, allowing it to unfold, put one foot in front of the other, right, don't jump to what you think might happen in two months and two years and 20 years, right, like it's not happening right now. Be in the now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What about you? What do you recommend?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, all that, uh, and I think uh, often like sleep hygiene is a big thing. You know I talk a lot about that. I noticed with the executives and stuff, because it's just it's. We're so inundated with information, like you said, so just try and take a break from that, but also make sure you are resting well. Um, matt, you know Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You need to have that, and I think we're just so affected by the sleep and so really focus on your, your wellness, and so exercise. You know have have like a gorgeous cheat meal, you know like eat well, but then make sure you like with, you know with nonjudgment and kind of, you know indulge a little bit here and there.
Speaker 2:Uh and and and. For us on the east coast right now it's um, it's actually been really like beautiful, like weather has been ridiculous, it's scary almost.
Speaker 1:I mean we haven't done all this other stuff, so uh, but you know, get outside, because now like it's november and you don't even need a jacket yet I mean which is like not normal you remember your days in new york yes, I, I do, I do, um, yeah, well, and and I'm gonna actually, because you know I can't believe it, as always, we're almost out of time here, um but but I actually like to sort of come back to bridging the gap of like post-election coping, for you know, whether you wanted this outcome or you didn't, right right something I've also been um, sharing a lot, uh with patients and been asking them to do is, and I think it speaks to what you were saying about what we hope people in general can practice more of.
Speaker 1:As I said, I think I would like everybody to try to be an advocate for discomfort and an advocate for nuance. So those things go together, love it, love it. Those things go together.
Speaker 1:So, you know, I've been saying to people like look we, we get um. We tend to get lost when we stop practicing willingness to be uncomfortable. Right, and that includes we are not willing to be uncomfortable in hearing alternative perspectives. We're not um when we're not willing to um take an information that we don't like, when we're not willing to be uncomfortable with just different ways of living. So I encourage people like be willing to be uncomfortable. Right, that's actually how we grow, that's how we expand our awareness, and then what does that do? Then it also helps us be an advocate for nuance, because we don't live in a black and white world, right, as much as the human brain wishes that we do. You know, like that's something that we need to go back to. So in this post-election coping practice, I'm going to ask all of you to be an advocate for discomfort, be an advocate for nuance, and hopefully that'll help you get through the coming days.
