When East Meets West
When East Meets West
S4E11 East Versus the West: Baseball Edition
What if the passion for your favorite sports team could teach you about compassion, connection, and life's unpredictable twists? This episode is your all-access pass to the vibrant world of East Coast versus West Coast sports fandom. We swap stories about what it means to wear your team’s colors with pride, whether you’re stuck in LA traffic trying to catch a Dodgers game or navigating the bustling New York City streets en route to a Mets showdown. Our discussion highlights the unique culture and challenges of being a sports fan on either coast, using the Dodgers and Mets playoff rivalry as our backdrop.
Our conversation moves beyond the stadium seats to the deeper emotional bonds and community sports can create. As a multi-generational Angeleno, I share how the Dodgers aren't just my favorite team—they're part of my family legacy. Meanwhile, my co-host relives their childhood filled with Mets memories, where team loyalty ran thick through family gatherings. We also touch on the evolving landscape of collegiate sports, particularly the Big Ten conference's expansion, and how these changes shape our regional and national sports identities.
Finally, we explore the life lessons sports fandom offers, from the psychology behind cheering and jeering to the surprising parallels between sports rivalries and political divides. Our playful debate about dream World Series matchups reveals how personal biases color our enthusiasm for the game. We reflect on how sports teach us to maintain relationships amid rivalry and disagreement, urging listeners to embrace compassion and understanding across differing perspectives. Join us for a spirited exploration of how sports not only entertain but also enrich our lives with valuable lessons.
put me in, coach, I'm ready to play I love when you, I love when you've got a little opening line, like in the queue.
Speaker 1:But I don't know about it, I'm like well, because it's not really in the queue, that's.
Speaker 2:There's no queue, it's just there's like, I think there's like a five second queue, like your. Your brain is like oh, nikki's gonna love this one and I do yeah, well, and listeners, it's the five seconds when I click record.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not like one day we're going to prepare, but we haven't started that yet.
Speaker 2:No, so I'm sorry. I have to say I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:You can say you're sorry, but the good thing is, you didn't do it, so it's okay.
Speaker 2:Well, tell the listeners what's happening, what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:We are going to bring East to West to another level and we love that about Eastern spiritual practices to Western behavioral science, but also New York to California. You know the double entendre there and now in World Series world of New York Mets versus the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. So you know, as I always grandiosely imagine someone listening to this episode, you know, five years from now, and they're like what? So we're in the playoffs. You know, to go into the World Series. That's what this is. So you know, we just had game one last night and I'm apologizing to Pete, because the Dodgers in Dodger Stadium beat the Mets. It was 9-0.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was 9-0.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll start off. I have questions for you. All right, here's a question. Yeah sure, what are California sports like in terms of fandom? And you lived in New York for like eight or nine years how many years I know? I should know that better than I do I lived for every. I lived for eight years so how are the california sports different than new york sports, or what are they like?
Speaker 2:well, I? I think that this is hard for I'm not a great person to be asking this question too, because I don't follow any sports except for not even just like baseball, except for the dodgers. I just I talk about the dodgers on this podcast all the time. My family were like rabid dodger fans. So, um, I do, I will, and it depends on the city right, like I will say, in la la fans are often um, you know, we get like chastised, they say that we leave games early. But the thing is, if you ask any angel, you know we get like chastised, they say that we leave games early. But the thing is, if you ask any Angeleno this is and I'll speak again specifically about Dodger games leaving Dodger Stadium. It's not that like we're fair weather fans, it's truly it's because of the traffic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have to leave. Well, they were saying like in before this for the wild card like LA and San Francisco oh no, oh no. Saying like in before this for the wild card like la and san francisco oh no, oh no. Is it the giant or there's some team? There's two teams that are like 16 miles apart, or something uh, you know what I might be well, I don't know, I'm mixing ucla and usc. I'm going to college sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't sorry, yeah, no, no, well, but so, but, but all but to that point it's like. So there's like a traffic issue.
Speaker 1:That's actually why people leave totally and then there it's like so there's like a traffic issue. That's actually why people leave.
Speaker 2:Totally. And then there's we have like very, there's like some pretty gnarly rivalries in baseball between it's always been the LA Dodgers versus the San Francisco Giants and then in recent years, the San Diego Padres, which are kind of like any San Diego listeners are not going to like me saying this.
Speaker 1:They're like, we think of them as like the little brother down south, um, and so the padres have gotten very good and we just, um, we just beat the padres in the previous uh series to advance, to go against the mutts.
Speaker 2:So that's pretty close.
Speaker 1:I mean it's an hour away without traffic la. No, it's two hours, two hours oh, I thought I remember being an hour. I used to do that, that's orange, that's orange county okay, yes, um so what's, what about you?
Speaker 2:but what about the east?
Speaker 1:I mean new yorkers, I feel like, are very into their sports well, new yorkers are, like, very into their sports and I, oh because, uh, we're like we're also, we're a really hard demographic in that there's a lot to do in new york, similar to california, except california is so large. So you've got right, san francisco, san diego and la have some large teams, but they, they could be. You know, from San Diego to San Francisco is like a three or four hour flight, right. Or no, I'm so terrible.
Speaker 2:Just he's not from California. No, LA to San Francisco is about a six hour drive. La to San. Francisco is a flight, so San Diego to San Francisco is an eight hour drive. Flight from San Diego to San Francisco is like like, I think like an hour hour 15, it's 45. No, not an hour and a half, like hour 15 is being extremely generous. It's probably an hour.
Speaker 1:It's 45 minutes la to san francisco well, the point I'm trying to make is that there's nowhere in the new york region that you couldn't get to in the car in less than an hour.
Speaker 2:No, in the East, in the East coast in general. I know people would be like, oh, I'm going to DC. I'm like, well, it sounds so far. They're like, oh, yeah it's like six hours. I'm like, oh, that's LA to San Francisco. No it's three from here.
Speaker 1:It's like going to Palm Springs, yeah, with traffic, yeah, so I say that and this is really long about ways to just say that there's lots of different options for sports and I think that people get very like like. So, for example, there was a recent football game in the first quarter the fans already booing, whereas in the Midwest you're not booing your fans, you're cheering them on even when they're down, because you're trying to cheer them up New.
Speaker 1:York fans are like oh, that's it, you suck, you're dead. To me, like you've already lost, and it's the first quarter, it's like no.
Speaker 2:Right. So I think that's the East Coast thing. I would say that is very apparent. Yeah, well, it's like, you know, it's the edge, it's the gritty. I, you know, I, I of course it's not my culture, but I enjoy that part of the culture. So I lived there for a long time. But tell me, maybe we can talk a little bit about, you know, because I'm sure there are people listening, who's going like, who cares, like Nikki and Pete like love the Dodgers versus the Mets, like maybe we could talk a little bit about like why it feels like so important to us and like because, again, this is, you know, like sports metaphors, pete and I love sports metaphors but like I'm always, I'm particular to baseball because the only sport that I watch. But I do think baseball itself lends itself to a lot of like analogies for life, and you know how to keep going.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, maybe we could start with just you, just read my mind because, like we always do, yeah, because.
Speaker 1:I was actually going to say. One of my pet peeves around sports, especially being in the sports world, is when people use the pronoun we and so actually when you started saying I'm sorry, we beat you in my head. I'm like, oh really, what was your batting?
Speaker 2:average, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:How did you play last night? But I think that was your exact question because we do feel it's so personal, it becomes so personal and so one of the things I immediately do is diffuse that language. For me and it's actually a help for clients, like, if you diffuse you know, because I've had clients be like you know I need to like regulate more when I'm watching a game because it's I'm not modeling well for my kids.
Speaker 1:they're my language, not theirs okay, it's like, if you work on cognitive diffusion, you know there is no we in this. Actually, you know, like, actually, if they win or lose, my bank account doesn't change sure.
Speaker 2:So like well, well, it's interesting because I think what you're highlighting is like if people are getting overly I mean, this could happen with anything when, when people are, to an ineffective degree, getting overly attached to a sports team, right where they're like getting super angry or whatnot. Absolutely, though, I would also say that like part of the, we is like community. You know, so, like for me, it's like I. It makes like I love being from los angeles like I.
Speaker 1:You know it's deeply is that why you guys are la? Like you said you guys, your family is hardcore. Is that why?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's we're. You know, we're like many generations of angelinos and californians, and so it's you know, yes, I mean like many generations of Angelenos and Californians. And so it's, you know? Yes, I mean like, like my dad grew up here, my mom is, she's kind of from all over, but like her, her mom was from here, she grew up coming. I mean it's like this is.
Speaker 2:It goes back and back and back and so, um, you know, I feel very, it's like to me, it's like a part of who I am, so it makes me feel connected. Now, obviously, the downside is when we get into the, when I feel like a white-hot rage for the San Francisco Giants, whereas and my dear friends that are from the Bay Area feel a white-hot rage for the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Speaker 1:It's not so useful. Well, and so you and I were texting joking, being like oh we have an episode about us being pulled apart now because of this, which won't happen.
Speaker 2:Just don't worry, listen, we'll be fine. No, yes.
Speaker 1:But I will say like I have a similar story in that my family has been Mets fans my entire life. And I always I draw the parallel that it's like religion in my house, so like it's just as much as you're like Catholic or Jewish just by sort of culture or familial upbringing. That's how we're Mets fans and my, my, my like second cousin was actually a part of. He was on the Mets roster like in 85, 86. And so, I have pictures of me as a baby in the dugout and that.
Speaker 1:so talk about generations and talk about like a real commitment, and so I have pictures of me as a baby in the dugout, um and that talk about generations and talk about um. Like a real commitment Am I? And if, if we had a planned and a guest speaker, like if we had my brother on, he would give you every fact, even of the LA Dodgers, probably like he's just this like yeah, yeah yeah and uh.
Speaker 1:so that's what I, that's what I grew up around and grew up in a baseball family. I'm the only son who didn't exceed or excel in a baseball career. I went on to swimming, but I think that that was a big piece of it too, so for you it was also family. How is it in LA during this time? Does traffic get worse?
Speaker 2:That's the most boring part of this. I mean no, los angeles, I remember a giant city. So uh no. If you live close to dodger stadium, sure, but I, I live on way on the other side of town, on the west side, so uh no, it does not get worse.
Speaker 1:But and do you see this presenting in clinical appointments during uh?
Speaker 2:no, but I will say when I lived in new york in 2017, when, um the uh, when the astros were playing, I had some patients that were also from la, and we would like we were all staying up this was on east coast time, obviously for us and so people would come into appointments and they'd be like so tired.
Speaker 2:I was like, were you up watching the game? And they're like, yeah, like me too. So you know, we spent 10 minutes talking about what was happening in the in the world series at that time. Um, but okay, so like coming back to sort of like the part of like the feeling connected, because I know what you're saying about, like you try to like disconnect from the we, but I'm saying like I think there's also something very can be very wonderful about that and it's like I'm wondering if for you, if you like again, it was that was a big loss last night.
Speaker 2:That's why I was saying I'm sorry it was like a heartbreaker because, like for me, when I like when the dodgers lose in the playoffs, or like they get kicked, you know they get eliminated or something, I feel it's crazy, it's not, but I get like sick to my stomach. I feel for all the guys, like I love all the players. I get like deeply sad for them. I mean like how, how did it? How do you feel like, do you get that tied into the mets, like last night, where you like, I like, I feel it in my body, like you know it's, it's.
Speaker 1:I hear what you're saying and I think this is just like I don't know a detective watching like SVU or something Like. I feel I work with so many different teams and so many athletes that if I were to have that, I would never get up out of bed.
Speaker 2:But it's your team I have so many teams.
Speaker 1:That's the problem. Like I have a lot and across all sports I I grew up, that's true, I grew up playing all sports. I grew up, that's true, I grew up playing all sports.
Speaker 2:I grew up in sports.
Speaker 1:Yes, like I love you, like being like. I just watched the la dodgers. I'm like I wish you know, because that would make my life a little easier, because here I am if more time on your hands yeah well, more time, right, and I'm mixing up ucla and usc with flights and, like you know, because all of those aren't your teams.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know but I was watching that last night and both of those teams are now in the Big Ten Conference. So historically these collegiate conferences were regional, now it's national, so it's sort of like.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And actually watching volleyball from UCLA and USC is some of the best to watch, because, of course, west Coast is known for volleyball, so I'm really excited and I was watching that yesterday. So, anyway, if we bring this back to the fandom, why are you and I still going to be friends after this?
Speaker 2:Well, because we're not going to be overly attached to one game or one series. That's not all of our friendship. Like. That's not like all of our friendship, you know. It's like. It's like if we go to the idea of baseball, or I mean any sport, but obviously talking about baseball today like is a great analogy for life, right, it's like when you're speaking to is like we can get and, by the way, I'm including like we can get really excited, but we can start to like hate.
Speaker 2:I mean, it starts to get into, it's a little microcosm for all the like, the ways that human brains, you know, um interact with other, you know, with our, with our groups and our people, right and so, um, you know, you and I work really hard on not living that way, like, even if we allow ourselves, we are going to have moments of that because we're humans, but we're not going to say, oh, I'm not going to know you because you love a team or believe something that I don't believe, or you know.
Speaker 1:Why do you feel like and this is just a total peripheral thing, I'm going to say this though no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think it's practice and I think it's a willingness to be uncomfortable to say like you're going to like. Actually, I'm going to use an example. Again, it's a baseball one. Of course, I have a very dear friend from college who this was in I think it was 2018, and it was the Dodgers ended up. They went to the World Series. They lost to the Red Sox, but they it was the game that they were um the playoffs game to decide if they were going to go, and I happened to be in San Francisco, so it's with a bunch of friends that now live in the Bay area and a friend of mine who is a huge Giants fan. We were at dinner and I was like checking the score and he hates the Dodgers.
Speaker 1:And he and.
Speaker 2:I said can you? I said this means he's like I want them to lose so bad. And I said I know that you hate them. I said, but as as your dear friend for like 20 something years, I said can, can you just wish this for me just? As your friend and he said no, I can't. And I told him. I said that really hurts my feelings.
Speaker 2:I said this is this is so like there is so like there's no crying in baseball like I'm going to extend like love and hope for this team that I like grew up hating, because one of my closest friends is really important to her and so and this is a very good person talking about right so I use this example to say, like, why are we able to do it? Well, I don't think we're always able to do that. I think you and I are aware of that. That is the human tendency and we have to be willing to see other perspectives and be uncomfortable sometimes and we can't. It's very hard to extend compassion to people that you disagree with or you don't like or have a different way of life.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. You just said that. I mean. I think. Say that right. It's hard to extend compassion to people you don't like or you disagree with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a different perspective, or have that is. That's one of the hardest things to do. So you know, I don't want listeners to sit here and think, oh, Nikki and Peter, just so good at it, they practice all the time. It's like no, it's very hard, Like I'm not saying I, I do that easily, but at all but.
Speaker 2:I think we're aware of that. So I think that's why you know an old ang it's more feels more of like a spirited good competition kind of feeling. But um, still like I'm not gonna, I didn't text pete during the game like you could have.
Speaker 1:But this is the difference. I mean growing up as one of three boys in a world of sports like that's. I always joke and I say that's how you share love, like right now I know, boys, you guys do that.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know, but I'm like, oh it, it's going to hurt your feelings.
Speaker 1:No, I give, I give you a greet. It's fine, it's, it's totally fine. Cause again, I think, for me I actually do think I'm pretty good at it I'm going to pat myself on the back because, again, like there's times that there's a lot of teams I work with that are work playing at all different time zones and I could not just stay up for all of it. Cause then, for me, I have to say, like what's my value? And my value is to meditate or to sleep or to do the other things, but I'm not going to stay up till 1am to watch a game. I'm just not going to do it.
Speaker 2:Sure, sure, but no. What I'm saying is that we're all going to have moments like my dear friend, who like where you can't, it's you hit a, you hit a step point, and those are the places that we need to really take a look at as humans of like is. Is is withholding compassion in alignment with my values. It could be about a baseball team, it could be about politics, it could be about your partner. Whatever, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:it's like well, I do think a baseball team and politics are different. I think that that's why both you and I yeah well, but for us we're saying that is, there are definitely people that would react the same exact way, though for baseball well, it's just, it's not baseball, isn't?
Speaker 2:it's not obviously impacting our day-to-day lives, right like that's the that's the simplest way of saying it, but but in terms of what it hits in our brains, is the same. Like actually there was. There was a really um, I don't know if you I'm going to totally blank on what I documentary this was, but I watched some documentary. It might've been this one, the social media one on Netflix we talked about before, like.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but anyway, in that I in that documentary they reference a study that was done in the Netherlands by psychologists where they showed people. You know it's a big like soccer country you know, football as I call it everywhere else in the world.
Speaker 2:But you know soccer here in the US and what they did was they like you know they had. We're still looking at people's brains and they showed them clips of like their home team scoring a goal and then a clip of their rival team missing a goal and they measured the activation in their brain.
Speaker 2:So when their home team scored a goal, the parts of their brain like lit up with excitement. And then what was interesting, but not surprising, was when their rival team, um, missed a goal, it showed like more joy yeah, a hundred percent. Yep, not surprised at all like that's, but but that but. So I share that. To say like it's, we're going on the same, it's the same thread, right?
Speaker 1:so politic like we, so we got to watch that part of us, you know yeah, you got to pay attention to it and I mean, we could keep talking about this and I'm so, I'm so glad that I'm the one leading this, because I can end with like a let's go mets and they can end that way. No, I'm just kidding, I won't. I won't do that to you. However, I will say so to your point. Hopefully you could recognize that the mets winning could set up for a metsets-Yankees World Series, which would be pretty amazing.
Speaker 2:But so could a Dodgers-Yankees World Series, which would also be pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not as cool as a Mets-Yankees, but not as cool for you.
Speaker 2:I extend hope for you as much as I can.
Speaker 1:Oh, but that hurt my feelings. It did, it did, it did. But anyway. So, those that tuned in today, you know, hopefully you're cheering for your fans in a way, or your team in a way that's healthy, boundaried and aligned with your values.
