When East Meets West
When East Meets West
S4E6 Breaking Stigmas: Athletes and Mental Wellness
Winning isn't just about the medals—it's about the journey. In our conversation, we explore the profound concept of focusing on the process rather than the outcome. With insights about the balance between ambition and acceptance, we discuss how experiencing both victories and setbacks contributes to personal growth. The dialogue is enriched with motivational quotes and practical advice on building grit and staying present, offering you a fresh perspective on resilience and mindfulness in both sports and life. Tune in for an inspiring episode that celebrates the beauty of the journey and the importance of mental health.
I'm Dr Pete Economo, the East Coast Psychologist.
Speaker 2:And I'm Dr Nikki Rubin, the West Coast Psychologist, and this is when East Meets West.
Speaker 1:Well, it is Olympic season. I know we don't like to date things, but you know, nikki, every four years I was not bullied for being a swimmer, so that's why I'm celebrating when people weren't stoked at you being a swimmer. I was a swimmer too, I know, but you're.
Speaker 2:Not like you. I mean just for listeners. Pete went to the Olympic trials. I did swimming to maintain my. I was a water polo player, which also was just high school.
Speaker 1:And maintained your surfing abilities.
Speaker 2:Yes, sure, on the West Coast that's not cool.
Speaker 1:That's not cool, just high school. But, and maintained your surfing abilities. Yes, sure, but on the west coast, yeah, yeah that's not cool, that's not.
Speaker 2:No, I mean especially.
Speaker 1:I grew up in a house of like baseball players and so like, what's the first thing people think about when they think of a male swimmer is a speedo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but where I grew up, that was like you know the norm very.
Speaker 1:It was very attractive, very cool you didn't look separately at like first of all, surf cool surfers, don't wear speedos. Just gonna put that out there no, no but no.
Speaker 2:But all the surfers, uh, at least a lot of them like were on, did water polo or swimming yeah, so they would do that there. So yeah, and also, we have outdoor pools too.
Speaker 1:That's the other difference well, you guys have outdoor pools and usually olympic size pools. I was saying that to somebody the other day like that's the norm pool when you're in like these tropical uh geographic areas well, we're not warm, warm, warm you're tropical to me okay but yeah all right sports and mental health.
Speaker 2:Sports, mental health. So obviously this is your bread and butter here, so start us off like there's. It's really been obviously more and more it's in the news, like a lot of professional athletes are talking about it, which I'm um just like very like thrilled to hear. Um I think it's so important.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, tell me any of your la dodgers talking about it, just wondering. You know that's a great question they probably I mean probably now.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I'm actually not aware of any of them talking about that. I don't know Now that makes me want to go look that up after this conversation.
Speaker 1:Had our producers done their work, we would have had that in front of us, yeah, so we would have had that ready to go, yeah. So far, listeners. A joke, we don't have producers, okay, so my guess is there are because you know baseball really started like mental skills and sports psychology. It's one of the first sports, baseball and golf, yeah, but a field that just thinks they do performance. And then there's a field that says it's mental health and performance.
Speaker 1:We've talked about that a bit on this on the podcast. I'm in the like mental health. You know, behavioral health is health is the way that I think about it. Correct, yes, correct. Preaching to the choir.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent, 100 I'm like you know, our brains are a part of our bodies.
Speaker 1:But go on just another organ, yeah yeah, just another organ, uh yeah. And so I think really what I'm hearing in like simone and some of these other athletes, is mental health. You know, like it's not just mental skills, it's not like simone needed to just find, like her pre-routine, like right imagery.
Speaker 1:I mean this, it was like so from before I go into it, like from your outside in, and I you know, with what do you think people sort of think she's been struggling with, or like what would you say that the worldview would be of her in terms of performance or just mental health?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I will. So I think that's a really good question, because I think for most people because this is what we do, I think just in general, but of course, with people in the public eye or people that are really, really successful, the assumption is that they're not struggling.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, that's actually what it is. The assumption is they have it all figured out. They must be, you know, sure it's stressful. Maybe they have a thought like that. It must be stressful to be someone like. That's a lot of pressure. But I think most people would make the false assumption that everything's amazing all the time.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, it's yeah, it's like they, it's well, it's, it's as if they're superhuman. You know, like I think that's exactly what you're pointing up, pointing at, and for me, I think that's the what, the art and the beauty of what I do is that I have these super humans that I get to work with and they get to share their, like, deepest, darkest vulnerabilities and you know, I could be the sort of person to help them resolve, navigate.
Speaker 2:You know, figure and figure that out yeah, absolutely, and I think what's so wonderful about these professional athletes, uh, being vulnerable and sharing about that is that, first of all, it like helps people that are not in positions of you know like extreme success or you know extreme skill to see like. No, we're actually you know to use a phrase we say in acceptance and commitment therapy a lot. We're all in the same soup, right.
Speaker 2:Which is you know, like, what that means and it's obviously borrowed from a lot of Eastern concepts is, like all humans struggle, right, like we struggle in different ways and to varying degrees, right, there's a spectrum, of course, but the given is that we all struggle and it's also, you know, unfortunately, human nature to compare and make the assumption I'm the only one struggling, like you know, I'm not here alone on an Island and and everybody else has it figured out and that's just not the case.
Speaker 2:So I think that naming that is so powerful and it starts to shift the conversation and, hopefully, the perspective that you know this might sound a little bit cheesy, but that, like acknowledging that you're struggling, is a strength, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's opposed to a weakness. And I think I would imagine in sports again, I'm not a sports psychologist, but you know I would imagine there's a lot of languaging historically. It's like obviously it's around winning right, Winning and losing, so there's a lot of, I imagine, like what's strong and what's weak, and so to be able to say, actually acknowledging that I have struggles, I could use support that, saying that that's a strength instead of a weakness, I imagine just becomes very powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, like you said, we're all in the same soup. But to really highlight, you don't have to be a sports psychologist. I mean, I only just started calling myself that. I mean you work with high performers, you work with, you know, people that are doing the things that athletes are doing, which is just like you said winning you know, whether it's, you know, somebody in the arts, or whether it's somebody in business, I mean the person.
Speaker 1:Everyone is trying to win in some way, almost, I think, at that level, like a Lyle Snow or Simone Biles. You know, going for the gold in a time where nothing is private. You know back in the day, you know like back in the day you would run into an Olympic athlete in the supermarket and not even know. You know, like you, you've heard of the athletes name but you may not have known what they looked like. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, well, with the exception of maybe like one or two. I'm sure you know what I mean. Yes, yeah, yeah, well, the scrutiny is just like exponentially higher and and this goes for you know it's interesting, it's like, as you're talking and thinking about this, you know it's interesting, it's like, as you're talking, I'm thinking about this, of course goes for feeds into beliefs. Right, that everybody else has got it all figured out. Everybody else is perfect. You know what I'm saying. Again, we've talked a lot about this on this podcast. Social media unfortunately leans into that tendency of the brain and exacerbates it. No-transcript, simone Biles. Like taking, which took like a year off right From was it a year?
Speaker 1:I think yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's also like, by the way, I was very brave to do that, to say no when people like that's another thing.
Speaker 2:It's like to say no people like that's another thing. It's like to say no, that like I matter first and yes, everybody has these expectations on me. But I'm not gonna do that because I want to be like healthy and you know in my aliveness, and continuing to to be pushed isn't going to work right now well, one of the things you talk a lot about is like value-based living, and that's what I think, that's what I hear in that and again, we're not treating anybody.
Speaker 1:We're not treating her. We're not trying to Sure sure to get the twisties in gymnastics is is you know could be deadly and how many you know, and I'll tell you like this year, in 2024, um she injured her calf was was was reported during um. I think the team which is the first part of gymnastics and the commentators were like oh, here we go, Like she's injured again or what's going to happen. You know, it was all so judgmental and negative.
Speaker 1:And I wanted to reach through the screen and you know, strangle or at least slap or something you know not for real. He doesn't condone violence Anyone. In fact, I wouldn't even know how to be violent I can't even kill bugs but it's okay to have that fantasy and that thought it is but you know it's.
Speaker 1:It brings up a thing where there's like a fandom, you know, and I actually was interviewed recently for an article where they were like doing this, so this year also, they they have uh, oh, you'll appreciate this, uh, if you haven't seen it, um, they they're putting some of the parents of the athletes on like biofeedback. They're doing like their heart rate or blood pressure while they're watching their child compete, which is like both really cool but also super vulnerable for the parent.
Speaker 2:Totally Well. I mean, there is the saying to be a parent is like your heart living outside of your body.
Speaker 1:So that's what it's. So we're putting that on international TV. But you know, the reporter was asking me and the journalist was like is that dangerous? And it's like no, like that's, you know, it's, it's all. It's just the human experience, like most fans feel that way, and I think this is another sort of symptom of social media, where the fans almost feel like the athlete is theirs. You know, it's a.
Speaker 2:I wonder what you thought about that. Oh, totally, I mean, I think that like the no-transcript, I think that that's really wonderful. I think the not so helpful side of it is the part where it becomes and, like you're saying, it's like they owe it to me, I own them. They, like you're saying, it's like they owe it to me, I own them. They should do this for me, right? It becomes more individualized. I think it becomes more about what feels good to you. Well, it doesn't. It doesn't feel good to you for that, to that point, you know. So it's like it's just interesting sports in so many ways. I think just that they use a lot of personalities, obviously on this podcast I certainly do in therapy, it's like because they're great analogies for just like things that that we do as human beings and there can be wonderful things about it. But there's like everything, there's like good and bad limitations that go to bed.
Speaker 2:You know it works and it doesn't work. Um, so you know, um I think I feel for those parents, so I think that's I'm like. Who's making these poor parents do biofeedback?
Speaker 1:I'm assuming they're consenting. I'm assuming they're consenting.
Speaker 2:Well, I know, I know, but I'm like it's not, it's not very nice, it's not very nice, it's not very nice.
Speaker 1:But there is this like unification thing that happens especially every four years with the Olympics, you know, I think that is a really beautiful thing. And, um, having family from other parts of the world, uh, when you see like the production from other parts of the country, like whether it's Columbia, or Sweden.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's a different lens.
Speaker 1:It's a different worldview, which I think is kind of cool because I actually um the American view that I've been watching. We'll we'll share stories of like those across the globe, whereas, like the Colombian production is very much only about the Colombian athletes that are that are competing. So I think that that was like an interesting observation because there's this unification piece. The Olympics is all about that international piece of like you know, we're competing, but also, like it's a you know, you learn to be. What is that?
Speaker 2:Oh God.
Speaker 1:Like to be a good sportsmanship. We have to do that episode on word finding right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do need to do, pete, and I've talked about that, we're always like we need to talk about word finding, Cause we got word finding difficulties.
Speaker 2:So you're saying. So you're saying what you've observed. It's actually interesting what you're saying, cause you're saying what you've observed. It's actually interesting what you're saying Cause you're saying what you've observed is your take is that in the American broadcasting they're doing a broader, like deep dive on. Well, it's very funny, cause, like I mean, I haven't, I believe you, I haven't noticed that this go around. In general, that's never my experience. I feel like it's always, it's always in, in fact, like the thing I get very irritated about and I'm in a way that also makes me laugh, or I'm like it's very, it's so american.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, it's like. You know, we love to do the metal counts, which is like an american, we always have the most right well, obviously you know, but it's always like you know I'm, we're the best or whatever. So I'm glad to hear you've noticed um in an, noticed an intention to move away from that and to be more broad here it seems like it, but the medal count is there.
Speaker 1:And to your point, America is winning.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh boy, I don't know what I'm going to say about it.
Speaker 1:I know If you could see, she has her hand on her head.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think you know, sort of wrapping this up, one of the things that we focus on in the world of performance is, uh, process, not outcome, and so you've you kind of opened up this episode with, like it's about winning. And the truth is, a lot of sport, if not all of it, is about winning. You know some sort of better number um, and inevitably, you know, you will fail. Like that's the thing about sport yeah you know, and let's think about.
Speaker 2:It's about life. Right, it's about life it is about it's about it's.
Speaker 2:It's like the winning is like I think again why sports are beautiful analogies for just all kinds of experiences we have as humans is like, yeah, like we. It's like the old, like you win some, you lose some. It's like there's nothing wrong with wanting to win or achieve or or be successful. It's like there's nothing wrong with wanting to win or achieve or be successful. It's like there's nothing wrong about that. Like they're destinations and those could be really amazing and mean a lot to a person, or celebratory. It's just like. And then there's the next moment.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I'm going to wrap this up with a quote that I shared recently with some of my athletes that are like going through, you know, football camp and things like that, and that will piggyback really nicely off of what you just said. So I reminded them that this moment is about building grit, like adding money to your bank account. Feel your feet, no judgment, take a breath, let go of anything you're holding onto. Now is now this moment. Only this has been when East Meets West.
Speaker 2:I'm Dr Petey Conomo and I'm Dr Nikki Rubin Be present. Be brave.
Speaker 1:This has been when East Meets West. All material is based on opinion and educational training of Drs Petey Conomo and Nikki Rubin.
Speaker 2:Content is for informational and educational purposes only.
